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012798 CC LRT Trail Open Forum AgP . . . . " ... .. " -~ r " ~: lIffi Open Forum Meeting Notice The Shorewood City Council members invite residents and business owners along the LRT regional trail to meet with them in an open forum on Tuesday, January 27, 1998 from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. at Shorewood City Hall 5755 Country Club Road Shorewood, Minnesota The purpose of this meeting is for Council members to visit informally with residents along or near the LRT trail with regard to their experiences with snowmobiles on the trail. This meeting is intended to gain input from residents. Since it is not a public hearing where official testimony will be taken, feel free to come and go any time between 7:00 and 9:00 p.m.; comment sheets will be available for you to make comments for the record. If you are unable to attend this open forum, we suggest you submit your comments in one of the following ways: U.S. Mail: Fax: E-Mail: Voice Mail: City of Shorewood 5755 Country Club Road Shorewood, MN 55331 474-0128 city hall @shorewood.state.net 474-3236, Ext. 1 for the Shoreline Official action will not be taken at this meeting. The meeting is open to the public. James C. Hurm, City Administrator/Clerk ,~ ~, -.' ..~ M E M 0 RAN DUM DATE: January 26, 1998 Includes Data Gathered as of 1/19/98 Jim Hurm Becky Tarvin Mid-season Update on Snowmobile Monitoring TO: FROM: RE: Snowmobile Complaints City Hall From November 1, 1997 to January 20, 1998, five residents had called in to City Hall with concerns regarding snowmobiling. The following summarizes these concerns received at City Hall: -Three residents concerned about snowmobiles trespassing. Public Works was contacted and hay bales were placed on property. -One resident called in regarding concern about limited patrolling on trail, lack of obedience to law, and trespass concerns. -One resident called in regarding dog almost being hit while walking on trail, concern about snowmobiles not slowing speed when near pedestrian (self), and curfew violation. 9-1-1 Reports - Henne~in Coun~ Hennepin County has een sen Ing monthly batches of reports regarding 911 calls about snowmobiling complaints. In November there were 13 total 911 call-in's. Of these resident call-ins: -All 13 were preseason violations -One was regarding a trespass violation -One was regarding a violation of riding in a city park. In December there were two 911 call-ins. Of these: -One was curfew violation. (00:08:01 ) -One was a trespass violation SLMPSD Reports The pollee department must be contacted to obtain their ICR reports. This action has not been completed yet. Since the snowmobile season began in earnest one week ago, the following violations occurred on the LRT: Speeding: 15 tickets, 8 warnings Registration violations: 2 tickets, 3 warnings Curfew: 4 tickets, 2 warnings (parties were stopped at 10:00 p.m.) Safety certificate: 1 ticket False information to police officer: 1 person arrested ..' - - ,~ . . Other Agencies An end-of-season report will be requested from any other agencies (Hennepin Parks, DNR Conservation Officer). No information is available at this time. Trail Monitoring Activity City Staff has scheduled 10 hours of trail walks at random hours. The following information from the first five hours of trail walks is available: Saturday, Dec. 13 7-8 p.m. Snowmobile tracks were visible. Additional signage was needed at Freeman Park. No snowmobiles were seen on trail. Saturday, Dec. 20 Saturday, Dec. 27 Saturday, Jan. 10 8-9 p.m. No monitoring conducted. No snow on trail. 10-11 a.m. No monitoring conducted. No snow on trail. 7-8 p.m. _50 temperature. No activity on trail. Some snow was on trail. Many track marks had been made. 200 temperature. 20 snowmobiles viewed. Excellent trail conditions. Of 9 perceived violations, 4 were no stop; 4 were against traffic, wrong side of road; and 1 was perceived speeding. Sunday, Jan. 18 4:30 - 5:30 p.m. Signage on LRT New signs were placed on the LRT Trail this year. From early November to November 31, signs stating "NO SNOWMOBILING UNTIL DEC. 1" were at four major entry points to the LRT trail. On December 1, those signs were removed and replaced with 18" x 24" standard "SPEED LIMIT 20" signs, with a smaller sign stating the speed limit reduced to 10 mph within a pedestrian. Other signs containing the City of Shorewood Regulations, No Trespassing Wetlands and No Snowmobiling in City Parks were also posted for the winter season. ,. . .. ~ ;lijIE(c!FI1\\Jl~t\. ~ .~~AN ~ 31998 -~. 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Fax Cover Sheet To: Name: Tom Dahlberg Organization: Voice: Fax: 9-474-0128 From: Name: Joe McGinnis Organization: Xerox Corporation - The Document Company Voice: 612-921-1387 Fax: 612-921-1438 E-Mail: Date: Tue Jan 27 10:47:59 1998 Pages: 3 (including cover sheet) Note: I will not be able to attend the open forum this evening so I wanted to make sure you had my thoughts regarding snowmobile usage on the LRT. Thank you, Joe McGinnis -. . January 27, 1998 Tom Dahlberg Mayor, City of Shorewood 5775 Country Club Road Shorewood, Mn. 55331 Dear Mr. Dahlberg, Our family recently moved from Minneapolis (Lake Harriet area).to a new development in Shorewood. Although we will miss living in south Minneapolis, especially the charm of Lake Harriet, Shorewood has plenty to offer. The LRT Trail was a factor in our decision when we purchased our home. My Wife and I are both very active and have two small children and a big dog that loves his exercise - so the LRT Trail has been a great resource! However, the reason for this letter is to express my concern regarding snowmobile use on the LRT Trail. A couple of weeks ago I was walking my dog on the LRT Trail just after 5:00 p.rn. We were going west on the Trail between Wedgewood Drive and Hwy 19 when two snowmobiles approached me from behind at a hieh rate of speed. Unfortunately, I didn't hear the snowmobiles because I was listening to music with my headphones and I was at a point on the Trail where it bends around the comer. Luckily my dog stopped and alerted me that something was behind us. We were able to dive out of the way and off the Trail just in time to avoid the snowmobiles which never stopped or slowed down to see if we were all right. Had my children been with me, I'm not sure we would have been able to get out of the way. First of all, banning snowmobile use in the City of Shorewood is not a realistic approach, but allowing snowmobiles to have access to the LRT Trail puts innocent individuals at risk. I understand that the speed limit is 20mph / 10mph when pedestrians are present -- THIS IS A JOKE especially once it gets later at night. I have also noticed that snowmobilers do not follow the curfew that is in place. The result is that I have concern " over the safety of my family and no longer can enjoy the benefits that the LRT Trail offers because of snowmobiles. As a taxpaying citizen of your community, it is a violation and extremely disappointing. Mr. Dahlberg, every year in the State of Minnesota we hear about people losing their lives on snowmobiles, that is a risk an individual takes anytime they ride a snowmobile, we can't control that nor should we. However, you and the council members have the responsibility to make changes to laws when necessary for the overall safety and welfare of its people. I urge you to take action and ban snowmobile use on the LRT Trail. Hopefnlly, an innocent person does not have to die before this is taken seriously. Sincerely, Joe McGinnis 5790 Smithtown Way Shorewood (H) 474 - 6375 (W) 921 - 1387 c: Kristi Stover Jennifer McCarty Jerry O'Neill John Garfunkel James Hurm .f-:' Memorandum Date: January 27,1998 To: Open Forum Attendees; Residents located on the LRT From: Mayor Dahlberg Re: Spowmobiles on the LRT CC: City Council, Planning Commission. Parks Commission. City Administrator Jim Hur:m. City Engineer Larry Brown Thank you for attending our Council Open Forum for residents living along the LRT. The purpose of this memo is to describe what I believe to be the most fruitful approach the council can take in dealing with snowmobiling on the LRT. By the way, I have never owned a snowmobile and am not a snowmobiler myself. I believe in staying warm As a matter off3ct, none of the councilmembers who voted for another year of snowmobiling on the LRT own a snowmobile or participate in the sport. Preface . The only objective estimate of safety on the LRT is the statistical estimate, and it suggests that the arrangement we have today may be safer than your neighbor's pets. For the time being there is no objective route to eliminating snowmobiling on the LRT on the basis of safety. . If safety is the ONLY issue, there is little question that it can be very practically resolved without a ban on snowmobiling. . If noise or trespassing is a real issue~ or perhaps even the issue, then we have not been making the progress we should have been making on that front From this standpoint, the activists have mismanaged the issue. . If snowmobiling is a measurable nuisance to residents living along the LRT then both the Snowmobile Task Force and the Council will want to revisit the earlier conclusion that this is not the case explore ways of mitigating it. What Should We be Soendimz our Time On? 1. A municipal ban on snowmobiling on the LRT might result, in the long nm, in stripping the city ofit's right to regulate the activity at alL; ini); - '-'O'_;J ""_~""_ ...",--,~;L;.'-,.,_.,_. I believe that Shorewood might succeed for up to two years in banning snowmobiling on theLRT,.aftef ," which the DNR, the county, the industry, and the snowmobile clubs would have a chance of returning:' snowmobile traffic to the LRT under DNR and/or county, rather than city, regulations. The LRT is the major access from the soUth in general and Carver Park, to Lake Minnetonka. Right now the county turns the trail over to Shorewood each winter, givingi1s the right to regulate all activity on the trail. But> Shorewood does not own the LRT, and there is no guarantee that a whole new approach to regulating the trail system would not be triggered and highly energized by atotalistic approach on our part ,The county and DNR will not be able to find a statistical reason fonejecting petitions.),:,;","",';;, r.':r;'c"i,j'.. J i' 2. The qiJaJityoflifefssue, for all the people living along the LRT, has probably been mism-~by the most vocal activists. ;/ii' " "-'-. . , So far, substituting the safety issue for the noise or nuisance issue bas not worked. And I don't believe it will work in the future. If the safety issue were clear enou2h. it could and would be dealt with decisivelv. But if the local safety issue is not well defined statistically, and is nevertheless substituted for the nuisance issue, it can only result in fruitlessly distracting attention from what is likely to be of most concern to most of the people in close proximity to the LRT. (a) The Council cannot make rational sOdal policy based on purely subjective estimates of safety. It bas not, and will not further the goal of shuttipg down snowmobiling on the LRT to offer subjective estimates and unverified observations of the safety of mixed use on the trail. In fact it is oerfectlv obvious that the obiective measure of safety is inevitably based on the accumulation of statistics over a Ion!! oeriod of time. But as soon as this is admitted it becomes a problem for the policy of banning snowmobiling on the basis of the safety issue alone. Statistically, walking the tIai1 in wintertime appears to be safer than your neighbor's pets. For the period of 1987 (when our police department started keeping records) through 1997 · There is not a single snowmobile accident report on record . (There is one "ice boat" accident recorded under the SnowmobileIRV category.) · There are 33 accidents involving bikes · There are 18 boating accidents, · There are 19 injurious :f3lls · There are 142 dog bites · There are 30 cat bites The only objective estimate of safety on the LRT is the statistical estimate, and it suggests that the venue' we have today is safer than strolling by your neighbor's pets. ' " " , Ifbanning snowmobiles on the trail means moving them onto the streets on their way to Lake Minnetonka, it may result in a much more intense risk than we face now., Banning them altogether, cutting off any hope of access to Lake Minnetonka from the south for snowmobilers (we have few places to trailer snowmobiles and park cars) brings lis back once again to the triggering of a policy crisis forthe region, the DNR, and,the - county, the Outcome of which is unpredictable.' Does 3ny of this mean that I think that snowmobiles and pedestrians traveling the trail together is an absolutely safe combination? Of course not. But it stands to reason that with the low speed limits and enforcement, the risk may actually be decreasing. In any event, the statistics are not good ~ for aJannists. ' , We all know from the news reports that sDowmobiling can prove dangerous for stupid snowmobilers and unwary pedestrians, and only strict vigilance will keep it safe in Shorewood. I believe in that vigilance along with stiff penalties for violations. .. -' . . (b) What would the threshold be for banning snowmobiling from the LRT on the basis of the safety issue? A further difficulty in simply banning snowmobiIing is that there is no agreed upon threshold of jnMdmcs that would imply that the activity should end. Incidents occur every year in a host of sporting activities which are not banned by municipalities, state governments, or sporting associations because DO one believes that any sporting activity can. even in principle, be made peIfect1y safe. Mixing ~and bicycles is recognizably risky, but an implicit policy of bicycling and walking at your own risk is. obviously prevailing. Perhaps it shouldn't Some may argue that walking the tI3i1 during bicycle season is an unnecessarily anxious experience. What is the safety threshold for shutting an activity down? If, hypothetically, the objective probability ofa fatal accident on the LRT during the winter is one every 200 years, that accident could nevertheless occur tomorrow. But what would it mean? That the present mixed-use arrangement is more dangerous tha mixing high-speed bicycles, without speed limits, and pedestrians during the smnmer1 Theobjective probability of a fatality occurring under mixed bicycle and pedestrian use is, for all we know, one every 100 years, and that, too, could happen this year. There is a great deal we don't know. But what we do know does not favor a ban if safety is the only issue. Common sense tells us that mixed use of the trail should alwaYS be a safety concern and should be remlated But there is no clear agreement, perhaps because there is no clear method for creating it, about the percentage of violations, or absolute number of violations, which implies a ban. In principle, if speeding alone, depending upon the extent of it, was universally agreed to be a good reason for shutting down byways because it is a blatantly unsafe thing to do, we would certainly have shut down many of our roads a long time ago. In almost any context, government regulation cannot assure both fteedom and security if even a single individual decides to behave iITespoDSlbly. (c) The safety issue, in any event, may be easy to resolve. Even if we did have a clearly defined threshold the safety issue cannot end snowmobiling on the LRT because it is too easy to resolve. In the :first place, pedestrian traffic could just as easily be banned from the tIail as snowmobile traffic, and so far we have no evidence that the effect of one ban would be broader in its total recreational impact than the other. It's important to remember that without the grooniing provided by the snowmobiling clubs, very little winter activity on the trail, on the part of pedestrians, would be ,posSIble. When we consider the cost of the patrolling, we need to also considerthe cost to the city of grooming the trail Second, the construction of a small. unobtrusive pedestrian side trail along the LRT, especially with the financial input of the snowmobile industry, snowmobile clubs, and perbaps even the county and the DNR, might incur a fraction of the cost associated with any section of our city-wide ttaiI plan. It would be inconsistent of city govetnment to preserve recreation along'our roadways, with ~ side ttai1s, while refusing to do so along the LRT at what might be a much lower cost If safety is the ONLY issue, there is little question that it can be very practically resolved. 3. If mixed use of the LRT is a real nuisance to residents living along the LRT then both the Snowmobile Task Force and the Council will want to revisit the earlier Conclusion that this is not the case. Both bodies would start focusing on civil engineering solutions to that problem,. instead of focusing exclusively on the issue of whether or not there should be a total ban. We may have lost a lot of time we should have spent devising quality of life solutions for both snowmobilers and non-snowmobiling residents, by focusing only on the issue of a total ban based on purely subjective e.c:timates of safety. All responsible snowmobilers are struggling with the qnaIity of life issue. Part of it is that 1aldng a snowmobile to Lake Minnetonka on the LRT is another positive differen<:e, from their point ofview', ';-'{!;):;~L'i':>;~_:( .<0.1- ""W/J ...... between Shorewood and more urbanized communities - a special difference they want to preserve without annoying people who reside along the LRT. If reason prevails, we may be able to ask ourselves what the measure of annoyance should be and derive ways of dealing with the annoyance. Perllaps a 10 13tbertban a 2o-mi1e per hour speed limit, or grooming the trail with snow waIls that will send the noise upward, or speed restriction devices, wonId help make life better for people living along the LRT. I believe there will be tremendous support among the vast majority of the snowmobilers for devices that are truly helpful and safe. There might be practical results fot the first time in years. If noise or trespassing is a real issue, or perhaps even the issue, then we have not been making the progress we should have been making on that front. We have been held up by an overwhelmingly subjective debate about safety and a total ban - a ban that might not serve our quality of life goals in the long run because the political context of snowmobiling on the LRT is not simply local. We need to be practical and wise in our choice of strategies.